Posts by Juan Viejo2

45

How was dating as Jehovah Witness?

by Pitchess Co-Gen in

looking back i'm glad i didn't marry my ex..

Juan Viejo2

As a high school aged JW in the late 50's, my life was very much like "Happy Days," the 1970s TV comedy (USA). My parents really didn't have a problem with me dating non-JW girls from time to time because they knew I was an active and faithful JW and I always dated "nice" girls. I would also date JW girls from time to time, but most of them were so messed up in the head that I found it to be a real chore.

The JW girls I dated were often cute when they were younger, but most turned out to be JW breeding cows. No disrespect to any of the fine ladies on this board, but for some reason as soon as those girls would get married, they would start popping babies and gaining weight. Some of them were real lookers as teens, but even in their 20s, many were difficult to look at and remember that I'd dated them once.

Every time I hear "Unanswered Prayers" by Garth Brooks I think of some of those gals.

I married a wordly girl from my high school senior class. She was not a JW when we got married in the Kingdom Hall, but she was studying and eventually converting. She was still in when I left the JWs about five years after our wedding. That whole thing is another story.

I think the best date I ever had with a JW girl was quite unexpected. A brother in our congregation had a couple of kids, one a girl who was a bit of a disciplinary problem during her junior high years. The whole family moved back east someplace and I totally lost track of all of them. One weekend the brother and his now 19 year old daughter came to town to visit and take care of family business. He asked me if I might take her out someplace while they were in town, so I suggested several things we could do. She insisted on going to the drive-in movie. I was Ok with that.

During the first feature we were very good and watched the movie and enjoyed our popcorn and all that - maybe held hands. But during the second feature she was all over me and insisted we get in the back seat. For those of you who have experienced that type of backseat entertainment you can pretty well imagine what we were doing for the next two hours. I almost lost my virginity that night. I know I pretty much lost everything else. Learned a few things too. That little JW girl was the hottest date I EVER HAD! The next day she and her father went home and I never saw her again. Never saw her, but will never forget her - that's for sure.

All in all, dating in the 1950s and 60s was pretty much based on the customs of the times. Later, in the 1960s and 70s, I know the rules about dating got really tight and dating a non-JW was pretty much a banned activity. The girls at the KH were for the most part pretty naive and confused about their sexuality - so many really went overboard when their hormones began raging out of control. My guess is that for most it is still that way and is probably a major cause of so much "pornea" going on in the KHs. It's very difficult to have a normal adolescent life for any "good" JW kid.

8

Who Owns Kingdom Halls & Land?

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i was just in a service meeting where the elder announced that the kh had been sold.

he gave the dollar amount and said it would be split between the two cong's currently meeting in it.

the cong i attend will move to another location which currently has a building with another cong in it, but there is also enough open space on the plot of land to build another edifice.

Juan Viejo2

This is the process going on at the Menlo Park, California Kingdom Hall. The local congregation held the title to the building and land. The WT sent in a new Circuit Overseer who announced that Menlo Park would be dissolved and would move in with Redwood City Kingdom Hall, just a few miles to the north. In order for the Watchtower to get control of the Kingdom Hall, the CO announced that the old hall would be renovated (using funds provided by the WT Society). The WT would then get their name on the deed and also the non-profit corporation that held the trust. Then they would merge the two congregations, sell the Menlo Park building and land, and the WT would keep the bulk of the proceeds.

The former elders of the Menlo Park Congregation have filed suit in federal court to stop the takeover. All of the former leadership of the congregation has been removed by the WT and elders from the Redwood Congregation have been moved in to takeover. The former elders, the plaintiffs in this case, all expect to be disfellowshipped, in spite of being faithful JWs for decades and having the full support of the majority of the local JWs.

As soon as I can finish some personal business, I will put together more information on this case and publish it here and on Ex-JW.com. I am also waiting to get some updates from local contacts and anonymous sources that should help me fill in some of the gaps.

The bottom line is that the Watchtower Society, through its Service Department and the Circuit and District Overseers, basically intend to just confiscate the Menlo Park property even though they owned no equity in the property and were not part of the deed holders or co-owner with the local non-profit trust corporation made up of local elders.

JV

38

Watchtower BREAKDOWN on the highway to Paradise

by Terry in

jw
friends

all of us at one time or another have owned a automobile that was a real lemon!.

the car may have been shiny, stylish and totally cool-looking....the only problem was it was a piece of crap.. repair after repair after repair in a never ending spiral of maintenance kept it in the shop more than it was on the road!.

you may have really loved that car--it might have been a classic---but--it proved to be totally useless for basic transportation because:.

Juan Viejo2

Terry - Thanks for sharing... I owe you....

JV

38

Watchtower BREAKDOWN on the highway to Paradise

by Terry in

jw
friends

all of us at one time or another have owned a automobile that was a real lemon!.

the car may have been shiny, stylish and totally cool-looking....the only problem was it was a piece of crap.. repair after repair after repair in a never ending spiral of maintenance kept it in the shop more than it was on the road!.

you may have really loved that car--it might have been a classic---but--it proved to be totally useless for basic transportation because:.

Juan Viejo2

Terry = PM #2

38

Watchtower BREAKDOWN on the highway to Paradise

by Terry in

jw
friends

all of us at one time or another have owned a automobile that was a real lemon!.

the car may have been shiny, stylish and totally cool-looking....the only problem was it was a piece of crap.. repair after repair after repair in a never ending spiral of maintenance kept it in the shop more than it was on the road!.

you may have really loved that car--it might have been a classic---but--it proved to be totally useless for basic transportation because:.

Juan Viejo2

Terry = PM

96

Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org

by eric356 in

ive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.

its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.

many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.

Juan Viejo2

eric356 - you have a PM

6

Sebastian Ramos case: Prosecutor appeals to Supreme Court of Justice

by TJ Curioso in

the link below will find the documents submitted by the prosecutor in the state of ceara, brazil calling upon legal advice that the case of discrimination against the elders of jehovah's witnesses, is scanned again and taken to the supreme court in brasilia.. .

the ex-witnesses are thrilled with what this may mean the national level as well as the possible coverage which may be either part of the media.. .

even if the appeal is without effect, a giant step was taken in the search for the criminalization of a religious body that causes much pain and humiliation to those who leave or forced to free and spontaneous will.. .

Juan Viejo2

Thank you DGP. That does seem to make things a little clearer. I will try to find more information about this issue and maybe give it a write-up on Ex-JW.com. It seems that's what these people want, because they keep sending me their comments and other documents in Portuguese. Some have partial translations, but as I said, they are basically unintelligible. Your translations are much clearer and provide a lot more information.

Thanks again.

JV

6

Sebastian Ramos case: Prosecutor appeals to Supreme Court of Justice

by TJ Curioso in

the link below will find the documents submitted by the prosecutor in the state of ceara, brazil calling upon legal advice that the case of discrimination against the elders of jehovah's witnesses, is scanned again and taken to the supreme court in brasilia.. .

the ex-witnesses are thrilled with what this may mean the national level as well as the possible coverage which may be either part of the media.. .

even if the appeal is without effect, a giant step was taken in the search for the criminalization of a religious body that causes much pain and humiliation to those who leave or forced to free and spontaneous will.. .

Juan Viejo2

I've gotten a lot of leads on this case, many directly from someone claiming to be Sebastian Ramos. Unfortunately, much of the text explaining the background, activity, and status is is such broken English that it makes no sense to me.

Can someone give me a better synopsis of what is going on in Brazil and how serious the uprising among JWs really is?

This could be very big. If it was in the USA, Canada, or the EU everyone would have their ears tuned to, but being in South America, it has tended to lose the attention of the greater crown of ex-other sheep.

JV

17

Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux

by Juan Viejo2 in

this message is important!

timing is critical!.

those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .

Juan Viejo2

Sweeney,

These brothers want the word to get out, and hopefully draw some financial and legal assistance, but they are reluctant to go to the press or other media to try to win their case. They want to try the case in court, before an impartial judge and a jury that is likely to give them a fair hearing. Newspapers and local media often misreport a case such as this. This is the kind of case that needs to be put in historical perspective so that the public understands the facts behind their filing the complaint.

Let's face it, who really knows who owns a church? Do you have any idea who owns the local Baptist Church? What about that beautiful historic church with the tall white steeple that is considered a local landmark? Who owns St. Paul's Cathedral. Who owns the Saddleback Chapel?

The reality is that most Protestant denominations are made up of lots of local churches that are controlled and owned by a local non-profit corporation (just as Kingdom Halls have been in the past). All decisions are made by local boards of directors as to what expansion will take place, how much to contribute toward the missionary work, who to invite to speak to the congregation, and how much to pay that person, if anything at all. They hire and fire their pastors and support staff. They provide benefits to the clergy and other employees. They are run very much like any non-profit corporation. Although they may belong to a national headquarters association, synod or particular denomination, they are for the most part independent.

That's how it was for Kingdom Halls until just a few years ago. And yet the Watchtower has convinced most of its followers that it owns all those properties - that it has the power to appoint or remove elders - that it can order the sale of any property.

The Bonham, TX scandal of the mid-80s proved that the Watchtower can not claim ownership of all Kingdom Halls. Although the case took years to finally work its way through the courts, the local brothers finally won and kept the building. By the time the case was over, however, most of the complaintants had either been disfellowshipped or left on their own. The Society did build a new KH a few miles away and basically abandoned their pursuit of the older building except in the appeals courts. They lost that case, but there were no real winners.

In my second article, hopefully online by the first of next week, I will point out that until the Society appointed a new Circuit Overseer there apparently never been any serious issues at that Hall. The elder body was made up of longtime brothers. The congregation had been fruitful, bringing many new converts into the Watchtower's version of the "Truth." I have not heard of any scandals from the past that would indicate that any of the elders had ever tried to go out on their own, or had ever stood in defiance of the Society or its teachings.

Within a year of the appointment of the new Circuit Overseer, these brothers were being accused of various actions against the Society. Mountains were made of molehills. Changes in the local Hall were not suggested, they were ordered. The brothers were purposefully embarrassed and accused of wrongdoing, mostly through gossip and innuendo.

The public press, for the most part, does not really understand the backroom dealings of Jehovah's Witnesses. If the Catholic Church "owns" all its churches, why wouldn't the Watchtower "own" all its Kingdom Halls. They don't understand that when the Watchtower "loans" contruction funds to build Kingdom Hall, they expect to be paid back by the local brothers, dollar for dollar, and expect the labor to be performed by volunteers. In many cases the land has been donated. All work and fund are eventually provided by the local brothers, but the Watchtower - upon full payment of the loan - then takes ownership of a valuable piece of property. The local brothers have nothing under their ownership or control.

Now if I'm wrong about this, I welcome anyone on this board who is, or has been a recent elder, to please correct my understanding.

In any case, the press would not understand that most of the older KHs were actually owned locally and that the WT HQ has no legal rights or ownership of them - but they are acting as if they did and no one is stopping them. Except Bonham and now Menlo Park.

17

Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux

by Juan Viejo2 in

this message is important!

timing is critical!.

those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .

Juan Viejo2

BTW - I am in the SF Bay area for the next few days dealing with that "family issue" I referred to.

If anyone in that area would like to meet with me privately to offer more information, please email or PM me. I have gas and money for coffee or lunch.

JV

contact@ex-jw.com